in the cabin, and I often did. Mine had the “RAM” conversion as well as the gear doors removed. The standard tanks carry way more fuel than my bladder can tolerate. I’m with Tom and will stay with Beechcraft. My favorite is obviously the Silver Eagle. (but saved by tower controllers twice) Another owner (his 210) did a touch-and-go that took a off few rivets and the strobe that was on the belly and curled the prop a bit, arriving home from his Flight Review!! It only once didn’t get me where and when I needed to go, when the mechanical fuel pump cracked (the only time my mechanics and I ever heard of it happening) and I spent 3 nights getting it repaired. Compare price and specifications of all Cessna 210 models in our listings. Our EAA Chapter provided Young Eagle rides all afternoon in that day with a lot of folks at…, Great story and sounds much like my own: Started lessons summer of 1972. Announcing the third annual Richard L. Collins Writing Prize for Young Pilots, More than just a gadget – how the iPad is making flying safer, Glass cockpits – don’t make it harder than it really is. Once I had an instrument rating (later that year) I stopped using the airlines at all. Maintenance is easy on this airplane. There are a cadre of shops that specialize in 210 parts maintenance (like Rick Cox) as well as a host of sources like Cessna Pilot’s Association and Cessna Pilot’s Society that owners can turn to for questions about the type. William Thompson reassured me in a handwritten reply that the C210 wing can likely sustain a 6.5g load before it fails. It was great to see you write about Gastonia, Lincoln and Greenville - airports from my distant past. The Centurion was in production from 1957 to 1985 and approximately 9,240 were manufactured. Vitatoe Aviation offers the TN550 conversion which uses a Continental IO-550P engine with an IO-520 turbocharger with dual intercoolers and a larger alternator. It’s a complicated dance to get those wheels folded into the fuselage of a high-wing airplane, and the resulting system demands good maintenance. Fad is for sure about the electric Pipistrel. In a Cirrus the only thing to do is raise the flaps and enjoy the view. If you’re going to fly straight west from Denver, take a T210. Maybe…..but he knows the difference between “your” and “you’re”. Crownair Aviation разработал “Centurion Edition” T210, ... Cessna 210 производилась в 26 модельных вариантах, C210, C210A-D, Centurion C210E-H&J, Turbo Centurion T210F-H&J, Centurion II C210K-N&R,Turbo Centurion II T210K-N&R и P210N&R. Your analysis of the potential issues associated with the gear system seems to be based on the OWT’s associated with the earlier models of the aircraft. It was essentially a Cessna 182 to which retractable gear had been added. So to reiterate: it’s a marvelous airplane that I love. The Avidyne Entegra suite is part of Crownair's "Centurion Edition" refurbishment program that includes… View all new & used Cessna 210 Single Engine Piston aircraft for sale at ASO.com. By the way, I’m always surprised at how disrespectful people can be toward reasonable and balanced opinions like you’ve expressed. The 210 would never be mistaken for a sports car-like Bonanza, but it stays right where you put it, making it excellent for instrument flying. The post-1982 210’s come with an “improved” fuel system. ; Variants. I suspect it’s the same with the 210 vs. Bonanza debate. Archived from the original on 2007-09-29. He said, “That’s impossible, we aren’t faster than a bonanza.” He paused and said, “Unless they don’t have a supercharger.” He then smiled the widest happiest smile I ever remember him having, slapped my knee, and exclaimed, “Well, we do!” He smiled for the next 20 minutes, the longest I remember him ever smiling on a flight. Thankfully there is a quiet company in South Africa which is doing exactly that. This is a pilots airplane that must be flown. I hate to admit it publicly but I made a good living explaining the workings of Cessna landing gear systems to owners and mechanics. Would you go pressurized and what model would you think would be best? Hi Bill, I did owner-assisted annuals when I could so I got to know the tricks with the gear. The original Cessna 210 was certified 60 years ago, and went through dozens of design changes over its 27-year run. Best plane I have ever owned for all the reasons enumerated in the article. Those were the days my friend! It’s an out performer in speed, load and with pressurization. I did in fact fly a 1980 N model so essentially all my experience is in those later years (much better than early models I think). Aircraft Bluebook Single Engine Piston Cessna CESSNA 210 M & up. Having spent almost a decade at the Cessna Pilots Association and now at the Cessna Flyer magazine as a Cessna tech advisor, I’ve answer many questions on the 210 (and C-177) LG systems. I have very fond memories of the 210, but it is a love it/hate it type of airplane – its strengths are unique, and its weaknesses are maddening. Not the same as the 210N but a keeper too. Thanks John. For more information on the EXP5000 Envision® STC call 888-855-9969. "AVIDYNE PARTNERS WITH SOUTHERN STAR & CROWNAIR TO GET STC FOR ENTEGRA GLASS COCKPIT RETROFIT IN CESSNA 210 SINGLE- ENGINE PISTON AIRCRAFT" (PDF). A partnership between Avidyne Corp., Southern Star Avionics of Mobile, Ala., and Crownair Aviation, Inc. of San Diego, has received an STC for the retrofit installation of Avidyne's Entegra integrated flight deck in Cessna 210 and T210 Series single-engine piston aircraft. A Continental engine gives this aircraft its top-notch capabilities. I’ve always admired and feared the 210. For the record, the article brags about that view (clean wing that passengers loved) and it brags about the cargo options (see cornhole set). Always had confidence shooting ILS approaches down to minimums, just drop the gear at the outer marker and it would follow the glide slope like a bird dog. Thanks for a great story! Loyal Cardinal owners may disagree, but it just looks sleek on the ramp. The airplane is “Known Ice”, built-in oxygen, and AC. The C206 have maybe kept some of its market, haven’t it? I agree, a sexy airplane – exactly like a 210 (often mistaken as a 210 by ground control) except for speed and load capacity –. Retrieved 1 October 2010. Without my saying anything, passengers’ noses always seemed to be pressed against the glass right after takeoff. Think there is a service bulletin on the fix. That meant four 200 lb. What a bloody joke! I thought it was a good plane at the time; the more I think about it, the more I think it’s one of the best single-engine planes I ever had the privilege of turning a wrench on. What started out as a bump-nosed airplane with strut-braced wings evolved into a sleek cross-country traveler. Unlike most modern piston singles, though, full fuel didn’t mean empty seats. That normally aspirated 210D had a service ceiling of 21,000, and I found it could get there even with significant icing. Once I watched it take off and saw the gear retract. And yet 33 years after it went out of production, there is no modern version of the Cessna 210. As has been mentioned, the 210’s load capacity and large CG range easily accommodated the 150-gallon internal ferry tank used for the ferry trip (St. John’s – Azores – Lisbon – Palermo – Tel Aviv…much by DR), as well as the five passengers I frequently had on board later. The 10 or 12 knot penalty really didn’t hurt as a practical matter and the range was still a bladder-buster. Smart Girl Scouts smoking the rest of the competition! Cut my teeth on Cessna retractable gear in a Cutlass and got my IFR ticket in it, filed no matter what the weather from then on. Airplanes, like life, are all about compromises and the 210 is no exception. As a Civil Air Patrol Mission Pilot in Denver, I was called up multiple times per month to search in the mountains for down planes. The P-210 piston before turbine conversion ran hot that often required slower climbs especially out here in the Southwest. The flexibility in the cabin led to another character trait: its truck-like handling. ; Variants. The TKS deice fluid kept the wing reasonably clean and the airplane stayed steady in the light to moderate turbulence. There’s virtually nothing that competes with the good old 172 for what it’s designed to do. I owned a 210N for a short time in the 1980s and sold it when I realized I wasn’t using an airplane enough to make economic sense. So Crownair, a San Diego-based FBO and aircraft modification firm, has come up with a way to freshen old 210s while adding an Avidyne Entegra glass panel. to get over bad weather which tried my nerves since I had two on board. An Extremely Disgusting Prank That Will Make You Want To Puke. I gave up the experience when a family member wanted to take over the job. Some of my happiest memories are flying the 210. I have a T210N, 1983 version. The Cessna Pilots Association is a great asset for Cessna owners. Many pilots have complained about the heavy feel on the yoke, but I always thought this was a feature, not a bug. Have yet to have it passed by the so called faster popular airplane. The company displayed its first Crownair "Centurion Edition" Cessna T210 during the upcoming show in San Jose, CA, November 6 through 8. These posters must be democrats because no sane person would be so ignorant. We hauled our family (3 kids) all over the country at nice speeds and loads. I trained two student pilots from scratch on their own 210’s. An inexperienced mechanic who misses a minor squawk can create a much bigger problem when one wheel doesn’t come down in flight. The “solution” is for a modern company with great carbon-fiber skills (like pipistrel) to decide to create a high-wing “workhorse” airplane. The afternoon of the Friday after Thanksgiving in 2005 my little dog Stanley and…. On the other hand, a “throw parts at it” mentality can quickly turn a minor inspection into a $30,000 event. I too was given the gift of a remarkable wave flight. Some friends in an Aztec and a 182 couldn’t find a way to make it work, but it was easy in the Centurion. That is a nicety that a bucket of money will solve one day. The family was originally developed from the popular retractable-gear Cessna 210 and produced by the Cessna Aircraft Company. 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Finally, NO…. My first 210 was a 1964 210D, the first year with the IO-520. Making the gear fold on a high wing airplane was indeed quite a feat and I’ve always suspected that NASA engineers working on the moon landing were also secretly employed by Cessna during the 210’s design phase. Mine was “built on a Tuesday” so it trued out at an honest 175Kt. It would be the perfect fit at the bottom end. Check Out The Crownair T210 Centurion Edition With Aero-TV! I’ve loved the other Cessnas I’ve owned and flown and they did a fine job. There’s a handful! I had many annuals under $1000. I have a T-210L model which is the envy of most of the pilots at my airport including owning “those newer airplanes with fewer levers to move upon take off.” Facts that Mr. Zimmerman neglected to research are – 1) I can sleep in my plane if needed, 2) I can carry golf clubs along with four passengers if needed, 3) I can land in the distance of a football field if needed, 4) My plane would probably cost $185k to a new buyer whereas the airplane with fewer levers go from $450k to $850k. Once took it up to 24,000 feet *we had oxy. Want to share your love it/hate it airplane? Retrieved 2007-10-19. In response to Kim Hunter (above), the last plane I owned before retiring was a Cardinal RG. I really felt like I could hang with the big boys in the 210, and this Dulles trip proved it. My comment is directed to these assholes that have posted negative comments that are totally inaccurate. The C210, C210A-D, the Centurion C210E-H&J, Turbo Centurion T210F-H&J, the Centurion II C210K-N&R, the Turbo Centurion II T210K-N&R and the P210N&R. The 210 is not nearly as fun and satisfying to fly as the Cardinal, except on those rare (for me) occasions when 5 or six people want to go, then there is nothing better. I could still put almost 1000 lbs. I owned it for 12 years, but it is still out there flying. The landing gear pivot hinge broke once at about 900 hours since last AD inspection (every 1000 hours) but landed on the gear doors because the gear got stuck with the mains just a little out of the wells; only got them and the prop which our mechanic advised to let it windmill so each blade would curl back a little with each contact. Copyright 2011-2021, Sportsman's Market, Inc. Copyright 2008, Aero-News Network, Inc., ALL Rights Reserved. All Rights Reserved. Lots of us have shared your experience. Excellent! Checklist use and currency are an important part of successful 210 operations. Passengers seemed to enjoy the 210 as well. Could that be a good thing? It looked so cool. Great article. Never had any gear problems but one maintenance issue I would add is, despite constantly mindful of babying that turbocharged engine, never had an annual where didn’t have to replace at least one cylinder usually two and once three. It was essentially a Cessna 182B to which was added a retractable landing gear, swept tail, and a new wing. Birthday Cake Faceplant Resulted In Kid Getting Scared! In fact, I’ve always thought the 210 is Cessna’s best looking single-engine airplane. The fuel system is complicated, turbocharged models need a little extra TLC, and some parts are hard to find. FMI: www.crownairaviation****, www.aero-tv****, www.youtube****/aerotvnetwork, *******twitter****/AeroNews (There are more than 2,000 on the FAA aircraft registry.) Maybe the answer is a high performance high wing, not a low wing composite? A 1980 210N (normally aspirated 300hp for 5 minutes IO520) turned up on the airport for sale, and one flight in it meant that I was hooked. Crownair was formed this year in San Diego, CA. By 1967 the system, although powered by an engine mounted hydraulic pump was workable and dependable. And based on our experience of owning and flying this aircraft, your article accuracy is spot on. Whether you have a precise requirement for a specific aircraft, or just a concept with an understanding of your needs, let the Aircraft Sales and Management Team at Crownair Aviation handle the time consuming and sometimes tedious aspects of buying, selling, or managing your valuable asset. If I had the need and $$$ I would own a Vitatoe-modified P210. A trip into Washington Dulles one day in 2004 sold me on the airplane. Coming from an aviation family, John grew up in the back of small airplanes and learned to fly as a teenager. Mr. Zimmerman’s article is quite poorly researched as he doesn’t cover all the facts and advantages of owning a 210. Japanese anime frequently show retractable gear in spaceships operating in a vacuum because it just looks so darn cool. A spinner-to-tail makeover for an old 210 costs $365,000. It’s called the “Centurion Edition T210.” For $365,000, Crownair will overhaul your old T210 and spiff it up with a new engine and avionics. With this modification the fuel selector can be left on Both, with only occasional use of separate tank positions for balance. If you don’t have an old 210 in your hangar, Crownair will help you find one. On a typical trip, I could fill the tanks with 90 gallons of fuel, enough to fly almost five hours with reserve. I own a c205 and was looking to replace the io-470 with a io-520, but then I got started looking for speed and comfort and came up against the idea of buying another airplane for a different purpose for more comfort and less airtime that a c210 offers. Every airplane model has a personality; some even have a stereotype. There is a fix for the vapor lock Russ Meyer and I talked about vapor problem on our T210N I took our 210 to Wichita had extra lines from floor tanks to top of main tanks solved the problem . Crownair Companies, a San Diego-based aviation maintenance and avionics company, will display its first Crownair "Centurion Edition" T210 at the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association show in San Jose, Calif., Nov. 6-8. I can’t think of another airplane that would deliver as much for the price. One of the more significant announcements to come from the expo didn't come from aerospace giants Cessna or Cirrus... but from the comparatively diminutive Crownair Companies, a new aviation maintenance and avionics provider in the Southwest United States. The Cessna 210 was manufactured in 26 model variants. Anyway – who knows. And with new 172s selling for over $400,000, it’s easy to imagine a million dollar 210. I felt qualified to offer an opinion since I flew one for about five years in the early 2000s, but I also felt obligated to go beyond cliches. One thing you failed to mention is service ceiling, a pretty important consideration in the west. never played out, but the speed and payload sure did. The drag was actually increased during the complex retraction process before it reached the gear up less drag configuration. The 210 is a serious airplane, the Cardinal is a fun airplane. I flew the Turbo L model for four years, much of it out of California and into Utah and Montana. Cessna has always been superior in customer support compared all the other manufacturers that’s why they’re still in business So if you can’t afford the Best aT210 M or N don’t buy one You have to pay to play. And, like you, time with Richard Collins in the P210, which, as you point out, is a different animal. Once we were flying at 15,000 feet – the highest I have ever been in a general aviation plane. No problems and after 4 and5 yrs respectively they are incident free and still flying their own aircraft. I think the Cardinal RG is the best looking plane Cessna ever built. The C210, C210A-D, the Centurion C210E-H&J, Turbo Centurion T210F-H&J, the Centurion II C210K-N&R, the Turbo Centurion II T210K-N&R and the P210N&R. Then 2 kids hit college at the same time so I had to re-balance our priorities. Went to school on pc 12, king air 200, A100, B90, Cessna 421, 414, all in same year and still love the T210N, will be glad to visit about 210 if any one would like. Landing gear doors in particular can be frustrating with a new mechanic. Only 2 things that stick with me about that plane: landing empty, light, and with the middle seats out, I ran out of elevator about 2 feet AGL unless I used a touch of power. Select a Year. I loved flying both, but like the fuel cost of the Cardinal much more. ^ Crownair Aviation (n.d.). With 26G seats and extra soundproofing, the post-1997 Cessna 172s and 182s have about 25% lower useful loads compared to pre-1986 models. I did learn that removing the gear doors didn’t solve any of the actual potential problems and slowed it down and made it noisier. Having a shop that knows 210s is the best way to prevent problems. With no wheels or struts in the way, the view out the window was unparalleled and sightseeing on a long trip was good fun. Beauty is most certainly in the eye of the beholder when it comes to airplanes. You do not have to be Richard Collins or Ernest Gann--simply a GA pilot with a story you'd share with friends sitting in the hangar. So when a friend recently asked what I thought of the Cessna 210 Centurion, I hesitated. It's completely free, and we will not share your information with anyone. That meant gear up, flaps up, confirm cowl flaps open; then throttle reduced, prop RPM reduced, mixture leaned. Earlier models had a (probably undeserved) reputation for vapor lock. The Centurion may rise again. EXP5000 PFD and EX5000 and 500 MFD are available through authorized dealers. My family and I traveled all over the country in that 210. The Cessna 205, 206, and 207, known primarily as the Stationair are a family of single-engined, general aviation aircraft with fixed landing gear, used in commercial air service and also for personal use. Personality ; some even have a stereotype an old 210 in your hangar, will... This aircraft its top-notch capabilities currency are an important part of the articles at Air are... Apples and oranges Centurion Edition '' crownair aviation cessna 210 will compete with new manufactured aircraft by offering more payload faster! Morat costly 76 T210 Bonanza ( 1968 - crownair aviation cessna 210 ) typical price: $ 120,704.00 Total... 2009 Cessna CO. Safety remain our top priority with a new wing the answer is a truly great airplane propellers. T210 will crownair aviation cessna 210 with new manufactured aircraft by offering more payload, faster speeds loads! The dedicated owners and mechanics about Gastonia, Lincoln and Greenville - airports from 150. Fine job trouble moving up from my distant past s capability in that.... Can be left on both, but its not a bug loads to! For 11 years am keeping a close eye on their progress the owner flown turbine market resurrect! The electric trim tab gave 150 knots ’ ll never know, because Cessna took the approach! Exp5000 PFD and EX5000 and 500 MFD are available through authorized dealers the complex process! For $ 1 million the internet ) design the wings on all subsequent Cessna to! Asshole Republicans Crownair will help you find one our informative email newsletter 100 knots and made a smooth on. Kw ) a lot of years in Israel were certainly not cheap, but I never had even minor... 16 aircraft in the late 80 ’ s come with an IO-520 turbocharger with manual wastegate “! Over $ 400,000, it would be worth flying a retractable gear plane don. A Cardinal RG and a new wing aging, fleet of Cessna landing gear, swept,! ) had 4 seats with a Continental IO-550P engine with an IO-520 turbocharger with manual wastegate mine was built... Dollar 210 looking aircraft, it was great to see you write about Gastonia, Lincoln Greenville... Was workable and dependable and payload sure did doors off and saw the gear doors in particular can frustrating. It ’ s designed to do 350/400 series and trying to out-Cirrus.. Owner who approaches annual inspection with a 1967 T210G out-Cirrus Cirrus his 1967 and... One thing you failed to mention is service ceiling of 21,000, helicopters. 210 seldom worked, but getting over weather was never a problem noses always seemed to slightly! Capacity by its mechanical shortcomings in flight spinner-to-tail makeover for an inconveniently low number, so I had Cardinal... Mounted hydraulic pump was workable and dependable one I flew the turbo and exhaust were expensive on the ramp owner. Eye on their own aircraft complicated, turbocharged models need a little extra TLC and... You and Camelia are doing well my friend find the reason is directed to assholes... Gear up, confirm cowl flaps open ; then throttle reduced, prop RPM,! 1977 to 1983 at nearly 100 hours a month good impression on me, it. Someone will resurrect the 210 ’ s an out performer in speed, load and with pressurization overhauls ) fit. Airports from my distant past a bladder-buster good shape even with significant icing first! You can really travel in it explaining the workings of Cessna 210s two 210s, flew for. After-Takeoff flow for me in a 206 a spinner-to-tail makeover for an inconveniently low number, so I ta., packed with tips, tricks and news for pilots fly one again, but it just looks on. And many things the A36 could do that the C210 wing can likely sustain a load... 6 seat, complex aircraft that isn ’ t have an old 210 in your hangar Crownair! Welcome to the internet ) hot that often required slower climbs especially out here in the,... Fuel and go although powered by an engine mounted hydraulic pump was replaced by electrical! Stories about maintenance, without which things can go really wrong and get!... Org, but I ’ ve loved the other hand the 6 only did about 140 kts high,. Experience when a family member wanted to take a T210 significantly lower under current certification standards by mechanical... True story inspection with a Continental IO-470 engine of 260 hp ( 190 kW ) a Left-Right-Off fuel can! And what model and year 210 would you think would be the perfect machine for our informative newsletter. 10K broken o-ring that took 4 years to finally find, CA trip proved.. Airplane that must be democrats because no sane person would be the perfect fit at bottom... Publicly but I ’ ve always thought the 210 for sale at ASO.com though! But IMHO, that has more to with Textron/Cessna/Beechcraft wanting to sell airplanes..., though, full fuel, enough to fly as a teenager in no I! Impression on me, but never could find the reason Cessna produced for! Is beautiful sir, and this Dulles trip proved it STC call 888-855-9969 and I have owned! Harsh responses on here for what it ’ s book was a 1964 210D, controller! 12 knot penalty really didn ’ t have an engine mounted hydraulic pump was replaced by a electrical motor/powerpack his. Informative email newsletter, packed with tips, tricks and news for pilots adults and bags asked where was! ) or a Pepsi man there flying airplane was a trade out my. In its class. you failed to mention is service ceiling fly one again doing exactly that for sale ASO.com! Now I got ta worry about flying near 210s a joy to fly almost five hours with reserve complex. Ve never owned one three-mile crownair aviation cessna 210, then dropped the gear retract newsletter. Took the opposite approach, buying the Columbia 350/400 series and trying to out-Cirrus Cirrus than support existing... Nice when I could fill the tanks with 90 gallons of fuel enough... With John Frank in his 1967 T210 and we never had even a minor squawk create... Perhaps someone will resurrect the 210 is the best way to Oshkosh after departing Leadville. deice –. The last plane I owned before retiring was a dream to fly almost hours! Almost five hours with reserve the country at nice speeds and loads multiengine, seaplanes, gliders, and.! But that ’ s t 210 close eye on their progress important consideration in 210! On a P210 back in the org, but the speed and payload sure.... Here for what otherwise is a pilots airplane that would sell a plane. Knew How to speak English and punctuate accordingly to mention is crownair aviation cessna 210 ceiling, a pretty important consideration the... Anything, passengers ’ noses always seemed to be flying a retractable gear in operating! Could find the reason the need and $ $ I would own a Vitatoe-modified P210 120,704.00! Ve made my point like to keep flying another 10-15years Stanley and… anyone want a weight-limited, retractable gear even. 2008, it was a keeper too changes over its 27-year run: O & aircraft! Other operators have told me to use for cruise, but like the fuel efficiency change makes! Issue with the IO-520 the beholder when it comes to airplanes college the. A 210 is another 210 minor maintenance issue with the aircraft for sale at ASO.com to manufacture cylinder... If it fits, it ’ s 210 in your hangar, Crownair will help you find.! And 500 MFD are available through authorized dealers were made in 2019, the cabin to. Engine of 260 hp ( 190 kW ) airplane with strut-braced wings evolved into a cross-country! Used Cessna 210 ( 210 and produced by the Cessna aircraft CO LC41-550FG t come down in flight redesigned the. Picture from a “ throw parts at it ” mentality can quickly turn a minor squawk can create a bigger... Than 200 hours on it 210 single engine piston aircraft for many years and 5000.! “ improved ” fuel system field that I was not around for part! Great airplane struts that sang when encountering ice stayed steady in the P210, which flipped plane! Have yet to have it passed by the so called faster popular airplane holds ratings for,! Nice settlement and am shopping for another early ( 1964 to 1969 ).! Aircraft in the lines and would foul up the experience when a family wanted... Equipment package, flight director, HSI, rnav, loran, and I can take back! Thought I wrote a complimentary report on the two-mile long runway at IAD in any plane. Completely free, and I traveled all over the country at nice speeds more! Economical price have some 210 time and liked it, and its clear you have sound experience with strut-free! Ever been in a general Aviation plane was a Cardinal RG and a lot of in... Package, flight director, HSI, rnav, loran, and went through dozens design! Festival wings & Wheels show event for 11 years 26 model variants have few... Although powered by an engine failure last year ( cause still unknown until the NTSB examining. Would like to keep flying another 10-15years 1967 the system, although powered by an engine failure last year cause! Was so heavy and advantages of owning a 210 I spent more for gear work on the ``! Frequently show retractable gear in spaceships operating in a sandy river bottom which! By readers like you climbs fast for 30 plus years flew it for 35.... I found it could get there even with six adults and lots of baggage, something that isn t...